Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Discussions about NEBA tournaments scheduled for the 2009 season.

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Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby six_topng_pizza » Mon May 18, 2009 3:05 am

Just Currious...

Was the shot requested by NEBA to be med/low scoring at Brockton after the shootout at Laurel or was this at The Centers discression on what they put down?...How did the lanes play left vs. right?...Where could you/couldnt play on the lanes?.....

Looks like to me the shot was either really deep and flat gutter to gutter with O/B,Your standard reverse block with alot of hang going away from the pocket,or just flat gutter to gutter with no taper in the middle with early hook.

Many times after a high scoring NEBA,The next tournament is usually med to low scoring.Seen this pattern for many years now in NEBA's.Anyone have any answers to my question above?

The Year Ending NEBA @ Brockton in 2006 was also a major grind out too(Brendan Bierch~~2006 NEBA Champ @ Westgate~~year end tourny).The cut scores/high qualifing scores from 2006 and 2009 are almost exactly the same.

Also,Who is The New NEBA Tournament Director or is the jury still out on an answer?

Congrats to Jon on your 1st NEBA Title and to The Other Top 3 Finishers..Chad,Russ,& Brian B....Nice bowling guys....;)

Any imput would be helpful.
TY
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby hitit300 » Mon May 18, 2009 5:35 pm

the shot was the way it should always be. That should have put a damper on most of those big egos.
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby RPDev66 » Mon May 18, 2009 6:05 pm

Joey Nereu is the new NEBA tournament director
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby NYHOSS » Mon May 18, 2009 11:46 pm

yea the shot at brockton was tough but fair... the pattern seemed mostly flat but was confused me is usually on the flat patter on the fresh u dont have a problem getting reaction. for me on the fresh on a normal flat (when i bowled the us open in 2008) pattern i started right around the trrack and when i startrd to get carry down i migrate in and give it a less hand. Brockton though at least on the left the track just seemed to have a hang spot from like 7-12 at like 40-45 feet. so on the fresh i found myself playing deeper than normal..

Eventually the heads get shot (yea even on the left) :D and I still had even more hang on the track now i found myself moving out to 3,4,5 and pretty much staying dead behind it. For me the gutter wasn't playable on the fresh but it was come the 2nd squad and match play. could be because i might have follwoed some stubborn people. lol.

what i liked about this tourney is people that i think have a little bit of an inflated ego..kinda found out what the saying "NO CHINA, NO CHECK" means.

see everyone in cranston
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby ScottW » Tue May 19, 2009 12:34 am

I'm pretty sure the pattern was the highway to hell pattern from Kegel.

Here's their description of the pattern:
HIGHWAY TO HELL - 2340 | This 40 foot pattern is the flattest of the group and therefore can be the most difficult. With an increased amount of conditioner outside, the HIGHWAY TO HELL is a low latitude ratio pattern with very little left to right shape to help guide the bowling ball towards the pocket. Each player will have to decide and make sense of their ball reaction to decide what's best for them to find their way down the HIGHWAY TO HELL!
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby six_topng_pizza » Tue May 19, 2009 2:19 am

Thanks for the answers guys.Considering I wasnt there to watch any of the NEBA and going by what the cut scores were,I pretty much guessed what pattern you played on from my apt.Guess my years on the lanes did pay off,knowledge wise.

Getting there early or the day before to watch how others bowl does pay off on what your in for when its your time to play for pay.Just a tip from someone who watched/learned alot from the back,not always on the approach.

For all the newer guys that bowl NEBA currently,Here is some history for you...Up until around the mid 1990's,starting from NEBA's earlier years,circa 1960's,Westgate was one of the most famous left-handed shot houses in New England where the shot on the left was always 8 left everyday of the week with tug right.

2nd runner up for a huge lefty shot would be Willi-Bowl in Willimatic,CT~~~Talk about motor oil in the middle of the lane with swing on the left(we wont mention about the burnt heads so split apart you could put 3-4 quarters between each board).

Unfortunatly,NEBA doesnt go there anymore(since the mid 1990's~~Willi-Bowl dowsized the amount of lanes they had from 44 to 32)

Good Luck to Joey on his new adventure as The New NEBA Tournament Director.

TY for you time in reading my reply....Any comments?
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby Becky » Tue May 19, 2009 10:33 am

The bowling center chose the shot.

NEBA did not request a tougher shot based upon the recent high scoring tournaments which was posed as question in the original post.
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby Geoff Wetzler » Tue May 19, 2009 10:47 am

THIS IS WHAT EVERY TOURNAMENT SHOULD BE LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunatly we'll loose 100 entries a tournament so it will never happen. It's about time we make people actually bowl and not just close there eyes and throw the ball to the right.
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby Chris Monroy » Tue May 19, 2009 11:46 am

My information was that this was the Highway to Hell pattern from Kegel with increased volume. That being said, I have absolutely no objection bowling on tougher conditions. In fact, personally, as a bowler, I prefer this type of scoring environment. However, from an organizational point of view, I also feel this shot was a bit too tough and may have discouraged bowlers from coming. As I told several players while I was qualifying on Saturday night, while this might be a fine condition to put down for the December event where we have the big money up from Westgate, for the May event where leagues have completed and people may be taking time away from bowling, this was not a good idea to make the shot THIS demanding. Entries usually are a little down during the summer given the good weather and other things as it is...we don't need to have entries suffer further due to conditions that might appear too tough. Prior to the 12:30 squad, it was looking that we were only going to get 32 finalists. Just my 2 cents.


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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby Forry » Tue May 19, 2009 1:05 pm

As Wetzler said - "THIS IS WHAT EVERY TOURNAMENT SHOULD BE LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!"

So maybe not every but it would be nice to have about half the events on Non-House patterns. I was away at Nationals and was disappointed I could not be there. I personally look forward to a challenge, whether I bowl good or bad. Isn't this why we all bowl, for the challenge and competition?

I understand that we MAY lose entries when lanes are tough but we also MAY lose entries on the china. I did not get to bowl Laurel (thank god), but I did hear that some bowlers came and did not bowl when they saw the ridiculous scores. This has also happened at Holiday in Somerset in past years. Bowlers bowl one squad, realize they can't strike enough to make the finals, so they opt to go home after one squad.

So I guess there is no exact answer to the lane pattern issue except QUIT BITCHING AND JUST BOWL!
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby hitit300 » Tue May 19, 2009 1:10 pm

Lets face it a lot of the talented bowlers in new england bowl in NEBA. Everyone agrees that the shot should be tough. I think that with a lower scoring shot it almost evens the field sometimes. For example you give a really good player a few boards theyre good. You give them the lane there elite. I dont think you need to make the shot incredibly hard but modify it a little bit to keep the scores down somewhat. I mean who wants to go into a tournament bowling the last squad seeing cut scores of 200 over. Thats like sh** i left 5 ten pins im done im not making the cut. So what happened at Westgate was great you were forced to make the shot and you were not able to spray the lanes.
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby NYHOSS » Tue May 19, 2009 1:55 pm

Personally i agree with Geoff and Chris F. I wish all nebas could be like brockton.

But like Mr. Monroy said there is a median in between laurel (im still confused why laurels cut was so high.. i didnt think they were THAT easy) and brockton.... i think patterns like this should be put out on the MAJORS if u wanna call them that and/or the bigger money tourneys.
Im sure there is something in between CHINA and HELL and hopefully NEBA and whoever else can find it to make as many people happy as possible.
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby ChinaDoll » Wed May 20, 2009 7:38 pm

I agree with Mr. Monroy as well. We have to remember we are a club - with members of varying abilities, strengths and weaknesses. There needs to be a variety of scoring conditions, with a default to a less demanding condition - so our 'members' will want to bowl. A large membership and bowling turnout month to month needs to be the #1 priority.

The pattern at Brockton will discourage many from bowling -- how many guys who have to really be sharp will make any cut at all will make the 1-2 hour drive to shoot -100 or worse? Not many.

For maximum membership and bowlers who wil want to come out cuts at +60 to +125 or so are probably about right and what should be the norm. If cuts vary from this I would argue higher cuts will have more people come out and compete than very demanding conditions like Brockton. Laurel won't hurt turnout nearly as much as Brockton.

At the end of the day we want turnouts of 200-300 guys and who all leave thinking they had a chance to compete. Did Brockton accomplish that? I would argue it did not.

The new feature of listing the cuts on Saturday late that night are certainly a good idea as guys can log on and see what the scoring condition is like and make an informed choice of whether to bowl Sunday.

Personally, as the log on name suggests, I like to see the +150 scores. But for you guys who want the demanding conditions -- make sure to enter those sport shot leagues, US Open and ABC Masters and have a great time grinding it out. The pros will be glad to see you shoe it up next to them.
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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby Holota » Fri May 22, 2009 12:56 pm

I have yet to see a correlation of entries to scoring condition. People bowl NEBA for the competition and experience. At least I do, and I join a league for the "club thing".

Last May Bowlorama house shot had:
Entries: 189
Qualifiers: 40
Cuts: 6:00PM (1180), 9:00AM (1188), 12:30PM (1120), At-Large (1164), Senior (1162)
High Qualifier: Dan Malkin (1307)

Last April Westgate house shot had
Entries: 161
Qualifiers: 40
Cuts: 6PM (1141 - leader Alex Aguiar with 1304), 9AM (1102 leader Tim Gillick with 1149), 12:30PM (1108 - leader Mike Rose Jr. with 1304), At-Large (1068 3-way tie), Senior (1052)
High Qualifier: Mike Rose Jr. (1304)

Laurel this April had
Entries: 189
Qualifiers: 40
Cuts: 6PM(1239), 9AM(1192), 12:30(1143), At-Large(1186), SR(1164), Bye(1221)
High Qualifier: RJ Broege (1286


Westgate This month had
Entries: 174
Qualifiers: 40
Cuts: 6PM (1001), 9AM (1004), 12:30 (1006), Senior (991), At-Large (970)
High Qualifier: Tony Reynaud (1117)

The bottom line is you can study this all you want. The underlying factor for entries is money, sponsors and the weather. I will agree that after Fall leagues are finished the softer shots should be used. Once the Fall leagues start, then mostly sport shots should be used. At least on harder conditions a bowler can practice and see an improvement at NEBA, how do you practice for a carry contest?


The junior bowlers bowl tournaments on sport shots and NEBA needs a house shot.

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Re: Lane Conditions @ Westgate?

Postby hitit300 » Fri May 22, 2009 10:23 pm

Perfect Holota hit it right on the head. Finally people that agree.
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