neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Discussions about NEBA tournaments scheduled for the 2009 season.

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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby bigbounce4321 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:48 pm

I think every neba should be like they were at silver or harder,when you threw a good shot you struck, when you threw a bad one, you paid the price,thats how it is on tour or at the highroller or megabucks tourneys so why should neba be so different that is why the good bowlers were around the cut or made it and the bowlers who shoot +175 on easy conditions, throwing the ball everywhere didnt make it.Just make your spares,which i didnt do, i was -45 and missed like 8 easy spares thats why i was watching the finals.Once again keep the lanes hard and lets see who the real bowlers are,but you cant do that because the swelled up headed cry baby superstars would not show up and where would neba be then?

if the lanes were difficult i would bowl ever tourney,but they never will be, so that is why i sit home most of the time.

just remember if the lanes on tour were easy.walter ray,weber,duke,barnes ect.would average 275 or better and that is no lie,no carry contests on tour.if you dont throw good shots out there on tour, your kids dont eat,you know what i mean,your tour life would be very short.think about it..........
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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby Forry » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:56 pm

WELL SAID TONY!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby michbowl » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:25 am

GUYS,

Whoa, Calm down!

Woody, first of all it was meant to be a joke and If I offended you I truly apologize.

With that being said I just wanted to see what kind of excitement I could create. I almost won this year at Brockton and never shot a game over 215.

I just think that posts to the negative on this website is to the detriment of NEBA.

So if I offended anyone in particular I apologize.

Have a Great Day! :D :D :D
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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby ScottW » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:44 pm

I'd like to see NEBA develop their own patterns and simplify it to a total of 3 with possible exceptions for T of C and Point Leaders.

We could have a low scoring pattern that puts the cut around even to +20, a medium pattern that puts the scores around +50 and a high scoring pattern that puts the scores around +100. We may not get it right the first time with each pattern but if we put the effort in I think we could get there in less than a season.

Of course the patterns could play differently (higher or lower scoring) depending on the lane machine and lane surface at each house but that would be no different than what the PBA encounters with their named patterns.

I think this would accomplish following:

1. It takes the responsibility off of the centers and they won't freak out about the scores. No bowler can then say such and such center "sucks" because the shot that was out there.

2. If we use these patterns consistently then we as bowlers are learning something and the bowlers that might say they are skipping a tournament because the scores are too low may think differently if they feel they can learn something they can apply to a tournament down the road.

3. It would also eliminate the surprise of unintended results (i.e. +200 cuts or shock factor of a minus cut).

Something Bill Holota seems to consistently accomplish with the patterns he develops is that both sides have equal opportunities to make the cut and all styles have the chance to make the cut. This was on display once again this weekend. Sorry to volunteer you, Bill, but I think you'd be an excellent candidate to help develop such patterns and work with the centers NEBA goes to to ensure the pattern is adjusted properly for their lane machine.

I'm not sure there's anything I can offer in facilitation of such an effort but if there was I would certainly do it.

Lastly, congrats to Viale on your first Singles win (2nd overall, yes they both count the same), I'm sure it feels great and congrats to Alex on another fine showing.
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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby Becky » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:39 pm

I am not giving my opinion but simply want to give information for the topic.

As Joey said, it is up to the centers to decide what they want to put out. Some are not interested in changing the pattern drastically, some still equate high scores to a "good center", some have the knowledge, some don't have the knowledge and some think they have the knowledge to put down a "fair" pattern, and some don't want to put out low scoring conditions because we bowl much slower (I have run two low scoring tournaments that finished after 8:30 pm which is a major problem in the winter when the center is full of leagues). With all that said, the centers who host NEBA are interested in our organization but we must work with the centers.

For years, we have offered Bill Holota's assistance if the center would like input with the shot. Some take advantage of it and others have no interest.

Lane conditions is an on/off hot topic. It has been discussed at many of the 15+ years of board meetings I have attended.
- Years back we used to request centers try to have a cut within a certain range (It was round 60-80 I believe). We don't do that anymore.
- It has been suggested we only bowl on sport/tought shots but has been discussed and decided against every time.
- There has been little interest in NEBA being "responsible" for the lane conditions. Mostly because we can tell the centers what to do but our staff doesn't push the button so there is no guarantee that what NEBA advertises is what we will get. i.e. Bowlers are angry at NEBA when we advertise a +50-75 cut and we get a minus cut or a tough lane condition put out by kegel and we get a high scoring condition dominated by lefties.
- On NEBA surveys, the majority of bowlers tend to want a cut in the +50 to 80 range (I am doing this by memory so dont' slam me if I am off by a little).

One slightly opinionated comment...
What we have at NEBA, whether perfect or not, is pretty darn good. A successful, non-PBA, reliable, monthly scratch tournament doesn't exist in too many other parts of the country.
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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby strongmonte » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:08 pm

well once again the bowlers of NEBA are not happy most cry because the lanes were tough well here is a box of klenex for you . maybe we should blame our own USBC for the problem because they have let it get this far . around 20 or so years ago we used to bowl on reverse blocks go to pba regionals and never once blamed the lanes except when they were in terrible condition . you know who you are ! so please if you are going to continue to whine about the lanes , you must hire a lane man for yourselves or stop whining . i think you guys just make yourself look bad . CONGRATS CHRIS AND ALEX i hope to see you all soon :
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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby Holota » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:36 am

I just wanted to add something.

This topic started from a bowler who didn't even bowl and I do not see any complaints in this thread from someone who did. While at the tournament even though the lanes were tough I did not see or hear alot of disgust from the bowlers who were there.
Russ, had you bowled, I am sure your opinion of "feeble attempt on the houses part" would not be your attitude. This comment reflects on me.

Now, to this weekend.

Silver puts alot of effort into trying to put out a consistent and fair shot across the house , even though they have a wick machine. The hardest part is trying to put enough out to get it to hold up all day.

During the summer sport league we used my Kegel Machine and A22 oil to run the lanes. We had some A22 oil left over and I suggested that we go ahead and use it up along with using the Kegel. The goal was 50-75 cut, that I clearly missed by a record margin.

The problem was that I do not bowl on the NEBA patterns to test them. (unfair adavantage) The pattern looked good along with the tapes and the ratios were not sport compliant. The last tournament there was almost sport compliant and had a +100 cut.

I put in about 20 hours per tournament at Silver to ensure that the machine is up to snuff along with tapes and measurements to ensure a fair event. Most of the time I can predict the cut based on the pattern and oil.
It is quite obvious that I missed this one by a mile and the last one by 30. The previous 4 were nailed.

I can write pages, if I go into detail about the pattern and why it was so low or how to tweak it, but the main point here is that you learn from what happened. So if we went to another house using this oil and took tapes we could compare and give a better educated guess to the outcome.

Bottom line is the cut was targeted for 50-75 and I missed, no one elses fault but me, not Mike not Nick not Silver Lanes.
But if we had another tournament here next month, I bet I could nail it with what I learned this weekend.
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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby strongmonte » Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:51 pm

hey bill , you of all people DO NOT OWE ANYONE AN APPOLIGY futhermore these are the people that like to shoot 250 everygame but cannot bowl 150 when they are not walled up . there is and never was the need to bowl 250 every game , we should have bolder conditions to challenge us more often then when the cuts come down alittle maybe ,just maybe the image of OUR SPORT will become better, until then this is what we will deal with. jim strong
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Re: neba saturday night silver lanes cut!

Postby bigbounce4321 » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:39 am

well said mr.spin dr.jim strong once again thank you for beating me in all them bracketts that year up at the green mountian open,now those lanes werent walled,ill tell ya that.right?
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