neba should reoil after each squad

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neba should reoil after each squad

Postby farmer » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:00 pm

if there gonna reoil the lanes for the finals the should skip that and reoil for the 1230 squad u already bowl 2 squads on the fresh so why not make it 3 squads on the fresh and then leave the lanes the way they are for the finals then that would eliminate the guys waiting around that are in the at large thinking there settn good then get crow bared by the 1230 squad and that has happend more then just this weekend start the first squad at 800 and 1 it would even make the finals move alittle faster because u wont have to sit around for a hr why they reoil for the finals. cant wait to hear other peopls ideas.
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby OkieJlo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:13 pm

If the 1230 squad was re-oiled, it would take alot longer to do the entire house, then just 16 lanes. It would turn into the 130 squad, and match play would not start till 430-5. Just my opinion, there should not be any more re-oil. I won after the re-oil started, but I am not a fan of it.
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby farmer » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:04 pm

the finals dont start untill then know so whats the matter with having a 130 squad start the first squad at 8 either way its still longer but no matter what its still a even plaing ground and no one squad has a advantage like they do know but hey who am i to tell a bird how to fly
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby michbowl » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:35 am

The whole cocnept of this was to try and make competition fairer for all, it has in some ways and hasn't in others. I agree that qualifying should be done on fresh oil for all squads, that would be the fairest of ways to qualify and then everyone would pick up where they had left off in qualifying.

I'm sure the Tournament director and the Board are looking at this. Todays oil patterns are all about lane carving and it really showed this past weekend. Credit those who used it to they're advantage.

This is ongoing subject and at the very least they're trying to make it best for all.
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby OkieJlo » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:01 pm

They always do a great job at pleasing the masses. A great job. This tourney ran for a long time the way it was, so its my opinion that it goes back to the way it was. It was a good test. I think that by not re-oiling the 1230 squad would take way too long. Who knows, maybe the houses we bowl in would not like an 800 am squad. Just my opinion.
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby michbowl » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:29 pm

Joey, That thread or opinion was meant as a compliment.... I know this is and ongoing issue.
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby farmer » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:40 am

alot of centers open early if there having a pba regional and neba surleys draws more entries then the pba the reoils in between squads succusfully i think the centers would be ok with it i personally think it would make neba better and might draw more entries overall
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby Transue » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:42 am

Here's my 2 cents both from a bowler and a being in the bowling business..

Bowler - in a perfect world, yes it would be better to have everyone on the fresh for each squad for score equality purposes. but without making drastic changes to the squad times i don't see it being a realistic option. Just look at East Providence at the 600th tourney, match play didn't start until close to 6pm. Now I know that was more of a center issue with the lanes they needed for their leagues, but at a big entry tournament where you have a lot of people moving on to the finals, oiling the lanes for match play does take a long time. I personally like bowling on the fresh, so i choose to bowl at 9am at all the tournaments I attend. We all do have a choice on which squad we enter don't we?

Center - IF Neba was to have a 8am squad time let's say at EP, i'm imagining that it would take close to an hour and a half or MORE to oil all of the lanes (it takes 45 minutes straight thru at my 24 lane center) So that means they have to open their doors at at least 6am. Would they be willing to do so I have no idea, my center would get it done, but some places might not want to.

I think Neba does a great job supporting us fickle bowlers, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen either Joey or Becky or a lot of others post on here saying if you want changes or have ideas all you have to do is bring them to the table. No idea is a bad idea unless you don't share it with others.
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby farmer » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:21 pm

i think entries would go up ive noticed to decline in entries maybe its time for a change i think they should try this for a few tourny fresh oil all 3 squads and then leave the lanes the way they are for the finals
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby istrike4u » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:32 pm

Sick-em Slick!!!

I personally think fresh for all qualifying squads is the way to go as well. I live 2+ hours north of most events, thus bowl the 12:30 squad to save a hotel stay. I can honestly say I have bowled less events in the past year plus since this change because I will qualify on one condition and wait 2+ hours to play the finals on a completely different look. Not to mention, I bowled 3 events last year where I didn't get home until almost midnight, and I didnt win!! This was because of a mistake either by the center or their employee pushing the button on the machine. So, as far as I'm concerned (just one guys opinion) oil the lanes in the am and again before the last squad and the finals are bowled after on whats left.

thanks and again just one guys opinion...

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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby michbowl » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:36 am

Well Said.
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby TReynaud » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:29 am

I think the discussion to re-oil before 12:30 seems to always start when the scores go up at 12:30 and all the at large come from that squad. This usually happens when the lanes are tough on the fresh and then they break down on the right and open up for the later squad. Nobody ever seems to mention it when all the at large scores come from the Saturday night and Sunday morning squad and the 12:30 gets shut out of the at large cut. Without really digging to deeply into it I feel this all works out in the wash at the end of the year. Sometimes it is best to bowl at 12:30 and sometimes it is best to bowl on the fresh.

In a perfect world oiling before every squad and then once again for the finals would be the best and fairest ways to do things, but we don’t have time to do that so what is the next best option?
My own personal feeling is the lanes are the most fairest on fresh oil. The finals are the most important part of the tournament and that is when you want to give everyone an equal chance to win the tournament. I believe this is what is happening right now, so I would say oiling before the finals is working almost perfectly. Yes the wrong button got pushed a few times, and the tournament is getting over later, but isn’t it well worth it when everyone has a pretty equal chance to win every month? Just to give you an example if the doubles tournament at Cranston was a singles tournament and re-oiling took place before every squad the righties would have roiled over the lefties in the finals. The lanes broke down enough on the right at 12:30 to gives the righties an advantage. That is why the scores went up and all the at large came from 12:30. When we re-oiled at 4pm the playing field was right back to even, or as even as they were going to get. This is also nothing that Cranston did wrong it is all part of our game right now. Breakdown happens and it is pretty hard to keep scores consistent on all of the squads not to mention both sides of the lane.

Another reason why I wouldn’t mess with the 12:30 squad is because it is our most popular squad. I would therefore assume most people are okay with the 12:30 squad. Changing the time or oiling before the squad may cost us entries. Bowlers may not feel like waiting around for up to 2 hours to reenter and bowl on the same condition that they just failed to qualify on. So it is very possible reentries could get hurt. If we oiled before every squad it is possible the 9AM squad could also lose entries. There are many tournaments where I feel it is important to qualify on fresh, so I make the effort to get out of bed early and bowl at 9AM. Many people might choose the one and done if they didn’t need to make the effort to bowl early. That goes for moving the 9AM squad earlier to make time for oiling at 12:30 as well. Moving that squad to 8 or 8:30 might just be too early for the bowlers that are traveling 1 ½ to 2 hours to get there for 9. In short moving squad times sounds like a risky move to me.

OKiejlo you suggested to go back to the way it was. This makes no sense to me. Oiling for the finals should have been done a very long time ago. I think NEBA lost many bowlers throughout the years because there wasn’t enough oil on the lanes to make up for the difference of the new age bowling balls that came onto the scene in the early 90’s. Flooding the lanes was tried for a while and that wasn’t fair to the left. If the lanes weren’t flooded to start then the right suffered because they were just too burnt up to be fair on both sides. The way it is now we don’t have to worry if one side or the other has a slight edge because either way everyone has a chance to win now. There have been many tournaments over the years where this wasn’t the case. I am talking both lefties and righties having disadvantages too big to have an equal shot of winning.

Mr. Hardy I can see how getting home very late may influence how many events you may bowl in, but I don’t think the lane condition from 12:30 to fresh oil finals should really come into play that much. I wouldn’t think the lefties would be experiencing drastic differences between 12:30 and the fresh oiled finals too often. I am sure they would be different and even if was drastic it should still be very adjustable. I have bowled some 12:30 squads and the changed in the finals was pretty drastic compared to the amount of burn on the right on 12:30. Even though the finals were much tighter for me it was still very adjustable. Before re-oiling I have bowled many tournaments where I would shoot 1200 on a Saturday night or Sunday morning, only to come back for the finals and the shot wasn’t adjustable at all. I would end up bowling 170 or 180 after averaging 240 in qualifying. This was very frustrating to me and influenced how far I would travel to bowl NEBA. It seems like a much bigger problem for bowlers going from fresh to completely burnt. I think it is a more doable adjustment for bowlers going from 12:30 to fresh oiled finals, then from a Saturday or Sunday Morning fresh to completely burnt lanes. After all most bowlers probably bowl on fresh more often then not. It is not like a bowler could even practice up for the burnt condition in the finals because that shot is nowhere to be seen. Here is something else to keep in mind to support the case for the re-oiled finals. The doubles in Cranston last weekend is a perfect example. My partner and I bowled at 12:30 and had some hook. We had the third highest score of the tournament and when we got back to the finals our balls went dead straight. We still managed to make the adjustment and finish 3rd. As a matter of fact the guys that lead the tournament at 12:30 came back and made the adjustment to fresh oil and won the tournament. The guys who finished 2nd also bowled at 12:30 and scored well. I guess what I am trying to say even though the fresh oiled finals are different they should be still very adjustable and shouldn’t stop anyone from entering the tournament if they are good enough to bowl in it. It isn’t even close to having to move 20 boards left just to try and get the ball down the lane and feel you still have a shot to win.

Reality is oiling before the finals shouldn’t cost the bowlers a lot of time. Half of the lanes if not more should be done by the time the cut scores are announced. We don’t have to oil the whole house like we would at 12:30. Honestly do we as scratch bowlers bowl to slow? How long does it take us to complete our block? I use to bowl a 4 game doubles league on Wednesday night. We were done in 90 minutes. NEBA takes more then 3 hours to bowl 5 games. I think that is the bigger problem for the guys that live far away then the time it takes to re-oil for the finals? Another thing to consider is what if the wrong button gets pushed for the 12:30 squad? Then you have to re-oil the whole house and now you starting at 3pm.

In closing I would like to say that I have put a lot of thought into the re-oiling for the finals idea. I can say from the bottom of my heart that NEBA made a long overdue and fantastic choice when they decided to re-oil for the finals. I think NEBA is a much more competitive tournament now that it is being done on a regular basis. In my opinion it is a good thing for all bowlers if you can spare the extra hour. I think the long term effect is that the tournament will grow if the economy ever comes back. I feel without the re-oiling for the finals the tournament had a chance to slowly shrink. I really thank the board and tournament officials for making this decision and many others that make NEBA one of the best tournaments in the country.

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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby farmer » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:37 pm

well first off its not fair for two squads to bowl on fresh and one on the burn and anybody that thinks its fair must be a in a dream world the 1230 squad always plays easier and 80% of the time the guy sitting on his al large score gets knockd out by the last squad, and for anybody that had there eyes open the doubles at cranston i felt the left was shut out and anyteam that had a lefty on it only made it cuz the righty shot 200 over ive talkd to alot of ppl and they even said fresh oil all 3 squads would generate more entries and as far as the time thing im still gonna travel 2 to 3 hrs to bowl the only guys that dont agree with reoiling for the 1230 squad are the ones who boom it enough said
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby TReynaud » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:58 pm

Farmer

Jan Cuts: 6PM(1046), 9AM(1023), 12:30PM(1065), At-Large(1038),

Feb Cuts: 6PM (1209), 9AM (1162), 12:30PM (1125) At-Large{1145}

Feb Cuts: 6PM (1189), 9AM (1221), 12:30PM (1170), At Large (1201)

March Cuts: 6PM (1136), 9AM (1136), 12:30PM (1117), Women/Senior (1110), At-Large (1103)

April NC Cuts: 6PM (1104), 9AM (1107), 12:30PM (1103), At Large (1088)

April Cuts: 6PM(1118), 9AM(1148), 1230PM(1147), At-Large(1124),

May Cuts: 6PM (1013), 9AM (1023), 1230PM (1007), At-Large(989)

June Doubles Cuts: 6PM(1066), 9AM(1120), 12:30(1157), At-Large(1100)


Jan at silver 12:30 at large did the best but some people still made it from 9:30. The first tournament in Feb the 12:30 cut score was lower then the At-large so 12:30 had no one in the at large. The same thing with the late Feb tournament nobody made it from 12:30. March tourney all squads were pretty even so no one had the edge. April Non champs looks pretty well distributed between all squads. Same thing with the regular tournament in late April. Same thing with May all squads had a chance for at large. June all at large came from 12:30, looking at this it tells me that 12:30 Had the advantage twice and had the disadvantage twice. The other 4 tournaments it didn’t matter. I would say this is working itself out in the wash. So I would say looking at these figures that your statement that 12:30 always plays easier and 80% of the time the guys sitting on the at large gets knocked out simply is not true. The other thing to keep in mind is the fact that NEBA has Squad cuts. That does for the most part equalize the scoring differences between squads. Yes the at large spots can go either way but we are only talking 8 to 12 spots a month and when you put all the months together it does seem to work out. I don’t think you should take equality out of the finals to try and make up for 3 qualifying spots in the at large.

I do agree that the left was harder then the right in the doubles but once we re-oiled for the finals it was pretty hard on both sides. If it were a singles tournament the lefties in the finals could have won even though there was an edge on the right. Your going to get edges one way or the other as long as they are not 20 or 30 pins then I would say things are pretty fair. That is why oiling for the finals is good for all bowlers; everything is pretty equal at the most important part of the day.
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Re: neba should reoil after each squad

Postby Gasman » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:47 pm

I strongly agree with the people who feel we should re-oil for the second squad and have been for a while. It is really not fair when basically the entire at large list comes off of any one squad. This can and has happened at least 3 times that I can think of in the last 6 to 8 months. However, based on all the discussions I have been in and heard of, the time factor always comes up which I sort of understand. The simplest solution to me to cure this is to simply guarantee more spots off each squad in squad cuts and lessen the number of at-large spots. Someone smarter than me will have to come up with the right number but it seems to me that if you take 1 in 5.25 or 1 in 5.5 off each squad, that will ensure that a few more people make it from each squad and will lessen the amount one squad can dominate the number of finalists by the at-large cut.
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