whats the pattern for bradley

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whats the pattern for bradley

Postby farmer » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:49 pm

they gonna use a house shot or put a kegel pattern out jw
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby michbowl » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:57 am

So glad someone answered this persons question?

Maybe this individual was thinking of coming?
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby Joeyd » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:40 am

I'm going to step out of my comfort zone for a second, and I'm going to apologize in advance if this comes out the wrong way... However, must this continue to happen??

First, the person asking the question is a fairly regular bowler.. Chances are the pattern isn't going to keep him from coming, or at least I hope it isn't.

Second, as has been said before, we (NEBA staff) aren't the ones pressing the proverbial button, and until we are (or we are choosing the pattern, i.e. Point Leaders) we WILL NOT post any information about the pattern. If someone from the center decides that they want to post information, they represent themselves when doing so. This is per board discussion/vote.

This isn't the 1st time that this has occurred. If there's not an answer to the question, it's because no one from the center or representing the center has information to post, or doesn't access our website, etc. It's not because we (staff) don't want to. It's because we don't want to say one thing and have a completely different thing happen. Again I am sorry, but the "thanks for your timely response" or "so glad someone answered this person's question" really isn't necessary.

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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby justinu7 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:14 pm

I am not apart of the center, but rumor is a house shot. Hope this helps bring this person and others.
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby michbowl » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:38 pm

How many times has NEBA contacted the house and ask the local Establishment to Doctore the Local House Shot? I Really don't care what you do but I want to know seeing that I travel a distance....I then can make a choice to go or not go. ( It has happened many times )


BAD ANSWER to a very sore spot.... My interpertation only!

If I'm the only person that cares about this, totally understood. Comments will not be made in future, but I thought the whole purpose of this discussion board was to make the tournament run better or to at least have input.
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby The Truth » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:00 pm

Its a fair question. I think everyone would appreciate knowing what to expect, or at least have an idea. I call the house sometimes maybe the Friday or Saturday before and just ask the desk if they can give me a heads up if nothings posted on here. I dont always get a pattern name or exact numbers, but someone is usually fluent in bowler, and can give me some details. Helps me pack an extra bag or two.

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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby michbowl » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:03 pm

Thanks John!
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby ChinaDoll » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:55 am

Of course this topic has been covered before - as it is somewhat timeless. Now at least we have 2 hall of fame type guys stating the obvious - they want to know the shot before they come ( and by default the scoring condition ). Wow, what a surprise?

Russ is honest enough to state it will determine if he goes or not - Jon just how many bags to bring. NEBA has denied this is a big factor and has ridiculed people for suggesting it in the past ( see lower in this post ) - but with two high caliber bowlers I'm sure Monroy won't have the guts to call them out. Simply said this is a thing NEBA should have dealt with in the past - let everyone know what the shot is going to be by posting it - instead of a few select superstars and select elite that dial the phone or text their superstar buddy. Like JVH needs more advantage? His talent alone makes final 16 most of the time - and even he feels the need to make the call. Regular guys and donators have no such option - just make the drive and sign your cash over to the superstars guys.

As I am not a superstar so feel free to twist their words and intent ( could Russ be any clearer? ) and defame me - which is all Monroy was capable of - but the fact is the issue remains and to date has never been dealt with. The solution - a simple post of the shot on Tu-Wed, doesn't seem to difficult does it? recent posts and pathetic Monroy rant below.



Re: whats the pattern for bradley
by michbowl » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:38 pm
How many times has NEBA contacted the house and ask the local Establishment to Doctore the Local House Shot? I Really don't care what you do but I want to know seeing that I travel a distance....I then can make a choice to go or not go. ( It has happened many times )


BAD ANSWER to a very sore spot.... My interpertation only!

If I'm the only person that cares about this, totally understood. Comments will not be made in future, but I thought the whole purpose of this discussion board was to make the tournament run better or to at least have input.
Russ Michaud




Re: whats the pattern for bradley
by The Truth » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:00 pm
Its a fair question. I think everyone would appreciate knowing what to expect, or at least have an idea. I call the house sometimes maybe the Friday or Saturday before and just ask the desk if they can give me a heads up if nothings posted on here. I dont always get a pattern name or exact numbers, but someone is usually fluent in bowler, and can give me some details. Helps me pack an extra bag or two.

JVH




Re: nutmeg saturday cut?
by Chris Monroy » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:37 pm
I have read the commentary about the shot at Silver Lanes in August. I have also read China Doll's comments about posting the results of the Saturday Night squad so that a person can make decisions about whether or not to bowl on Sunday. Quite frankly, I have had it with this discussion and it is angering me. As President of NEBA, I will not support the official publication of the results by the Tournament Director. On a practical level, it is not fair to the people on Saturday who do come to bowl that they should have no idea what the scoring pace will be and the people on Sunday have some idea. Ideally, everyone should be bowling with the same information. The Saturday bowlers decide to come, put up their money to bowl, without knowing the scoring pace. Why should the Saturday bowlers basically be guinea pigs for the Sunday people? Makes no sense. Moreover, to China Doll, I don't appreciate your commentary about there being no reason or no excuse for this not to be done. Well, I think there is very good reason for the Tournament Director not to do it. I have just cited one of them. I will stand by the highly efficient and excellent job that Joey Nereu has done since taking over as Tournament Director. I think the Board made an excellent decision in selecting him from the several qualified candidates that we had and I think the disrespectful tone of your comments was out of line. Nobody is objecting to suggestions being made to improve NEBA. That is why we have a Board... to grow and improve NEBA and there are proposals being considered for such a purpose. What I am objecting to is the somewhat sarcastic tone of your comments. If you think, as Revinifinity stated, that you have so much to add to NEBA, then apply to get on the Board. I am happy to accept your request.

On another level, I personally think it is pathetic what China Doll wrote about having to know the scoring pace in order to decide whether or not to bowl. Instead of wondering whether or not the scoring pace fits your game, WHY NOT GET OFF YOUR REAR END AND WORK ON YOUR GAME SO THAT YOU CAN IMPROVE??? PERHAPS, IF YOU IMPROVE, YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT THE SCORING PACE IS BECAUSE YOU WILL HIT WHATEVER IS PUT OUT BY THE HOUSE!!! Oh yes, I am sorry, in this day where everyone demands instant gratification without any requirement of hard work and tenacity, I should have never suggested that...I lost my brain. I will remind all bowlers that NEBA is truly one of the PREMIER tournament clubs in the country, not just for the quality and duration of the events that the organization has and continues to run, but also for the caliber of bowler that has and continues to participate in NEBA. We have had PBA National Tour champions who graduated from NEBA so to speak. (Moser, Boghosian, Willis, Fagan, Allen, Wayne Webb). Need we also forget Mark Roth who won his 1st NEBA event he entered at Brockton in 2007? We have PBA regional champions who compete on a regular basis. (JVH, Michaud, Santos, Morotta, Wood, Miseno, Monroy) We have had megabuck/high roller champions who continue to bowl. (Tignor, Lichstein, Roberts). We have had ABC Eagle winners who still compete. (Hardy, Warshafsky). We have had two of the finest female bowlers in the country compete in NEBA. (Swanson, Kregling). I can't count how many NEBA players were champions of World Team Championship events. (Forry, Bill Webb, Rebstock...the list goes on...we all know who they are) I know I am missing people from each category on this list and there are some who belong in multiple categories. That list was not exhaustive. Look at the top 2 people who are leading points this year and they are nationally recognized for their accomplishments. (Aguiar and Dale). Generally speaking, you look at the people who year in and year out are in the top 48 of the points and you will come to the very quick conclusion that they are there for a reason...it is because they are quality bowlers who CAN and DO compete on all conditions REGARDLESS OF THE SCORING PACE. They are not afraid of any condition. My sense is that the vast majority of the top NEBA players are there because they have obvious talent but also because they work very hard at their games, practice, and learn the game from every aspect. They don't sit back and wait for a report to determine whether or not the scoring pace is to their liking. When they fall short, I suspect, like any true champion, they go back, figure out what went wrong, and come back stronger and smarter for the next event. AGAIN, IT IS HARD WORK!!! I have made several changes in my game after struggling at Newington which was one of the easiest shots this year. In fact, I averaged higher at Brockton on the tougher shot than I did at Newington. I was not happy, and I generally do not like shootouts. But, I went back, and made changes to try and be more competitive.

So, to China Doll, I will be blunt... you have the mentality of a loser if you really need scoring pace information to decide whether or not to bowl. I don't know who you are and for all I know, you could be one of the people I listed earlier. However, based on your comments, I suspect that you are not. If you need to know what the scoring pace is to determine whether not to bowl and whether or not you will have 10 boards to hit to get to the pocket, then as Kelly Vanhees observed, you should probably find something else to do. Perhaps you should come and bowl on a Saturday. From your own attitude, you probably need as many squads as you can to try and qualify. Moreover, I will sign my name to my comments AND STAND BY THEM. Lastly, if you want to go after me for sounding so sanctimonious/holier than thou, perhaps you should ask about the caliber bowler I was when I joined the PBA in 1994 and the learning curve and amount of work I have had to put in so that I could improve and be competitive at all levels of bowling.

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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby Gasman » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:14 pm

The problem with your theory is that in some cases NEBA and the board have no knowledge or control of what the pattern will be ahead of time. The house has complete control for the most part. I am sure that if Becky and Joey had prior info and were 100 percent confident that the house could actually come through and produce the shot that was advertised. However, this is impossible to do and get it right all the time so there was a vote passed in a board meeting at one time that no one from NEBA would discuss lane conditions on this board prior to an event. No info is better than bad info.
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby Joeyd » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:27 am

michbowl wrote:How many times has NEBA contacted the house and ask the local Establishment to Doctore the Local House Shot? I Really don't care what you do but I want to know seeing that I travel a distance....I then can make a choice to go or not go. ( It has happened many times )


BAD ANSWER to a very sore spot.... My interpertation only!

If I'm the only person that cares about this, totally understood. Comments will not be made in future, but I thought the whole purpose of this discussion board was to make the tournament run better or to at least have input.


Russ, to answer your question, we contact the center the week before every tournament to discuss. We request that the scoring condition be medium paced, or not a shootout, or not completely brutal, or whatever other axiom you'd like to place here. It's just that though, a request. We can't mandate that they put down a certain condition. If they say yes, super. They're well within their rights to say no though.

As for my "bad answer", why wasn't it a bad answer when the board made this decision in the first place?? As an aside, you were a board member at the time of this decision and present at said meeting..
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby Joeyd » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:48 am

ChinaDoll wrote:Of course this topic has been covered before - as it is somewhat timeless. Now at least we have 2 hall of fame type guys stating the obvious - they want to know the shot before they come ( and by default the scoring condition ). Wow, what a surprise?

Russ is honest enough to state it will determine if he goes or not - Jon just how many bags to bring. NEBA has denied this is a big factor and has ridiculed people for suggesting it in the past ( see lower in this post ) - but with two high caliber bowlers I'm sure Monroy won't have the guts to call them out. Simply said this is a thing NEBA should have dealt with in the past - let everyone know what the shot is going to be by posting it - instead of a few select superstars and select elite that dial the phone or text their superstar buddy. Like JVH needs more advantage? His talent alone makes final 16 most of the time - and even he feels the need to make the call. Regular guys and donators have no such option - just make the drive and sign your cash over to the superstars guys.

As I am not a superstar so feel free to twist their words and intent ( could Russ be any clearer? ) and defame me - which is all Monroy was capable of - but the fact is the issue remains and to date has never been dealt with. The solution - a simple post of the shot on Tu-Wed, doesn't seem to difficult does it? recent posts and pathetic Monroy rant below.


Russ' words are about as clear as mine.... We're not dictating the shot, so we're not posting the shot. That's about as plain and simple as it can be. When we know the shot that's being put down (i.e. Point Leaders) the shot is posted. It's either myself or Becky making the call to the bowling center, and NEITHER OF US knows what the shot is.

Any chance you were at the tournament this weekend? I'm going to guess that you didn't bowl, but perhaps you were a spectator?
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby istrike4u » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:52 am

This could get ugly!!!!
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby Chris Monroy » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:38 am

To China Doll- I don't know who you are and quite frankly, I could care less. I will 100% stand by my post that I wrote 2 YEARS AGO. I am going to assume that you must have personally something against me which would explain why you would search out a post of mine from 2 years ago. That's fine...and unlike you, I will again sign my name to my post unlike you who will remain anonymous.

That being said, when I was President, it was decided, as a Board, that such information would not be divulged. Joey's restatement of the position of the Board is 100% accurate and since that is what the Board decided on, then that is what must be followed. As I said before, it is very easy to just be a complainer here on the Forum. If you truly feel that strongly about this issue, why not make yourself known and get on the Board as an at large member? Alternatively, at the very least, why don't you speak to the current President about the rule and request that the issue be brought up at another meeting? Perhaps then you could make a positive contribution to this organization instead of engaging in personal attacks on this forum. Unless and until the rule is changed or modified, then that is the rule and that is what Joey and the Board must follow. Believe it or not, in today's age, rules still exist and are to be enforced.

Furthermore, I will say this. Nobody is taking issue with a spirited discussion of issues and the consideration of any and all ideas. As I wrote in my concluding letter when my term as President was to expire, I always tried to encourage ALL VOICES to be heard, whether it was the once a year bowler who will never make a cut or the POY caliber player. I always did my very best to let EVERYONE in the meetings have a fair chance to be heard and to have ALL issues considered...to the chagrin of some I might add. If you had ever attended a meeting China Doll, you would I think agree that this is true which was not always easy in the light of the numerous and multiple challenges and issues with which we had to contend at that time. So, I agree with Russ Michaud and JVH that it is a fair question. I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is an inappropriate question. The fact that this issue was raised and discussed in meetings is further evidence of the obvious...that it is a fair and reasonable question. However, what I think Joey was reacting to was the fact that Russ gave the appearance of sarcasm in his second post in this thread...the part dealing with a timely response, especially where Russ knew the rule that such information cannot be revealed by NEBA. As such, if I am indeed calling out, then I guess I am calling out Russ for the TONE only of his post where he knows what the rule is. Russ and I have had plenty of heated and contentious arguments over NEBA issues. That being said, I have respect for Russ as a person and a competitor and disagreements over the NEBA issues, no matter how contentious, will not change that. Unlike you China Doll, I try not to make such issues personal, unless they are made personal against me first.

Lastly, I still don't know what such information will reveal to you unless you are all omniscient. So, let's say that you were told that it was a house shot...what does that tell you? It could be a 37 foot house shot, 45 foot house shot, high volume, low volume, wet/dry...the variables are endless. You don't know the machine that is putting down the shot nor the oil that is being used. You CANNOT predict what the breakdown of the shot will be as the tournament goes on. As a person who has bowled in regionals, and I believe JVH would agree with this, I can tell you that you can put down the pattern with same machine in 2 different houses and see very different reactions. It is amazing how many times I have made finals in regionals and the pattern seems totally different from day to day. So, again, I will ask you, what do you learn from knowing what the pattern will be? Perhaps I still live in the 80's, so I apologize if I am dating myself, but my coaching has always been under the guise of LET YOUR BALL BE YOUR GUIDE. If you are bowling well, you will figure a way to score. It is not at all surprising that, since you used JVH as your example, that he bowled very well yesterday on a higher scoring pattern, but also bowled very well in Wallingford when the pattern was MUCH TOUGHER. Maybe it is because the kid can flat out bowl and knows the game very well. Generally speaking, the people that I cited in my earlier post from 2009 are all top caliber players who don't worry about the shot, they just shoe up and bowl. If they make it...great. If not, they find out where they went wrong and try to improve. So, China Doll, since you CLAIM to not be a superstar, why don't you get on the lanes and practice hard to get better? Might that be a better use of your time instead of crying on this forum/finding a post of mine from 2 years ago, which I zealously defend, and calling me out? If you want to call me a hypocrite China Doll, I will tell you that since coming back from injuring my arm last year, I have been struggling badly in tournaments. Yet, I continue busting my rear end to try and figure out why I am not bowling up to my standards and working to improve. It has been humiliating how poorly I have bowled since coming back but I have had to swallow the bitter pill and proverbially pull myself up by the boot straps and try to get back to where I was in the past. However, it did not matter what the shot was this weekend...no matter what, I was going to be there and bowl. If I struggled again, then I would be going back to the proverbial drawing board. That, in case you did not know, is the way you improve and get better. It also makes those times when you do succeed and achieve, all the more gratifying.

China Doll, if you have something to say to me, say it my face properly and politely and I will be glad to listen to you. If you want to remain anonymous behind your screen name, that is your prerogative and good luck to you.If you want to call this post a flame or defaming you, take it as you will. However, since you again CLAIM to not be a superstar, your time is better spent working on your game and practicing than complaining on this forum. I don't think the various people I cited in my 2009 post got their achievements by sitting on their rear ends and hoping those things would happen. Mind you, I use the word CLAIM since again, neither I, nor the readers of this Forum, know who you are.

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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby Becky » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:54 pm

I am replying to the first two posts:

ORIGINAL POST "they gonna use a house shot or put a kegel pattern out jw":

NEBA's policy is to not "announce the shot" before tournaments. The exception to that rule is the Point Leaders Tournament at which we can ensure all those competing get the lane pattern and we work closely with the center to put out a more demanding shot.

This has been discussed many times in recent years at meetings by the Board of Directors and the membership. We have never voted to change our policy for a handful of reasons. I don't have specific notes or I would list the rationale.

We do not specifically tell a center what lane condition it has to put down for the tournament. Our intent it to hold our 18 tournaments a year on a variety of shots - "sport", "challenge", "house", etc. We often talk to centers about what we would like them to do. We are fortunate that the centers we go to work with us and try to control scoring as requested. Some centers have a lot of knowledge which allows them to put down a pattern for our organization. Based upon experience, we try to avoid having centers put new downloaded patterns into their machines since that doesn't take into account the many factors which affects a lane pattern such as all machines, type of oil, lane surface, age of lane surface, humidty, etc. as well as past history of the scoring pattern of our tournament.

If this policy ever changes, I/we will share it with the membership and you will be able to find that information on our website.

SECOND POST "So glad someone answered this persons question? Maybe this individual was thinking of coming?":

As Secretary, I try to keep my posts factual & informational but I need to inlude personal reaction and opinion to this post. With that said...

If anyone is unable to answer a question on the message board, please contact me at Becky@BowlNEBA.com and I will provide a reply. My goal is to help encourage people to bowl in NEBA and eliminate any misinformation that exists.

I am disappointed with this post. Instead of this person simply answering the question (I know he has the answer since he was on the board when this topic was discussed plus this topic has been discussed on this forum in the past), he put up a sarcastic, obnoxious comment which implied that somebody (I assume an employee, board member or forum moderator) should respond to the question. This doesn't help NEBA nor it is the function of a message board/forum.

I looked up the definition and function of a message board/forum. The basic definition - It is a way for members to discuss topics and share information. When you see a topic you're insterested in or question you can answer - post a reply. A moderator comes in when when there is something that needs to be controlled on the site. Moderators and employees cannot answer every question. You do not see the tech service guys at Apple replying to every question about how to use an IPOD on internet forums. People help each other.

What does it accomplish to say ""So glad someone answered this persons question? Maybe this individual was thinking of coming?" It seems as though the post is angry that someone isn't giving an answer a potential future bowler of NEBA YET the person didn't answer the question or give a solution on how this person can get an answer. The sarcastic post didn't help encourage interest of this possible entry and therefore, to me, is a more damaging response than no response at all.

If you are interested in helping NEBA, bowling and future bowlers, please provide answers to the best of your knowledge or contact someone who you think can help (a friend, NEBA staff, etc). In the past, I have had caring members let me know there was a question on-line that needed a reply. If anyone ever sees a post that needs a response which they cannot answer, please contact me at Becky@BowlNEBA.com. I have a Blackberrry so I will quickly receive your message and tend the matter in a timely manner.

Thank you to everyone who uses the message board to help our organization, our members and anyone else who is looking for information.
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Re: whats the pattern for bradley

Postby RevInfinity » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:07 pm

First and foremost, if somebody wants to know what the shot is, let them find out. As bowlers bowling NEBA, we still have to hit what's out there, and while knowing what's out there may allow somebody to be a bit more prepared as far as equipment goes, to win a NEBA, we still have to bowl well, so to me, it's irrelevant.

This is a forum of public opinion, so if Russ has an opinion about something and a concern about something, it probably should be stated without backlash. NEBA, last I heard, was about its members, and NEBA wouldn't be as great an organization without those members. NEBA does have a policy to not announce the shot, and if that policy was agreed on by the board, then it needs to stay that way. If someone does not like that policy, then that person should come to a board meeting and share their suggestion so it can be heard in the proper manner.

Now to the unnecessary part of this whole thing... We all know the talent pool of NEBA participants have a wide range. Now as far as I'm concerned, I'm pretty certain that if somebody wants to know how the lanes played on Saturday night, anyone interested in bowling knows somebody who was there. China Doll, any decent bowler knows that it really doesn't matter to them if somebody has an advantage or not. If I go into a NEBA blind, and Jonathan goes in with full knowledge, I'm not going to blame that advantage for getting my ass kicked if I were to get my ass kicked. It means Jonathan bowled better than me on that occasion. In essence, I didn't do MY job as a bowler. Whatever happened to that philosophy? I'm sure it was that advantage that made Jonathan win at Bradley (pardon the sarcasm). Aren't we a little bit paranoid?

Now, I'm not really sure why somebody would wish to bring up a post from somebody two years ago, who hadn't yet made a comment in this thread. Now, ChinaDoll, since you insisted on bringing up the past, you blasted NEBA and Silver Lanes for putting out a minus cut back in the summer of '09, and then that carried over to Chris's long response to you. And then the funny part is, you decide to rehash it. And for what reason really? And the irony is, you were upset about defamation, which is precisely what your post was obviously meant to do. So, I'm kind of lost here... And the reason why people don't call out "superstars" is because they've earned it. Somebody, like yourself, who refuses to identify himself/herself, isn't going to get favorable treatment because, well, who the hell are you to say what you're saying? How the hell do we know if you're a regular bowler or not. If you're a regular bowler and member of NEBA, then let us know who you are. Perhaps if you did, you may get more polite responses?

Sometimes what Russ says rubs the wrong way, but he has no problem stating who he is, and as long as I've known him (upwards of 13 years now probably), I've always respected that, and him as a person and a bowler. But bringing in a post from two years ago, and referring to that person multiple times in your post, not only shows that you have something personal against that something, but it almost borders on obsession. If you want respect ChinaDoll (which I have to say, nothing you've said or done on this board really doesn't merit you any), then tell the forum who you are, and perhaps an actual discussion of your concerns could occur. As far as I've seen from your posts, you've deserved most if not all the scathing comments directed your way.

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