nutmeg saturday cut?

Discussions about NEBA tournaments scheduled for the 2009 season.

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nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby wujekcity » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:08 am

anyone know what the saturday night cut was?
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby ChinaDoll » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:22 am

After the completion of the Sat night squad and the posting of the results for the participants whomever is working the computer for NEBA that night needs to post the information on this site that night.

An example would be:

48 bowlers
high score +126
low to make cut +74

This would allow people on Saturdayt night to see what the scoring environment is -- and for some to decide whether they want to bowl Sunday.

It would take all of 3-5 minutes to do this and would be quite valuable information some for NEBA bowlers. This needs to be done for every tournament, no excuses not to get it done.

In contrast posting the match play results and who won on-line immediately is far less important and could wait till Monday or Tuesday......... as it does not effect particpation at all.
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby kellyv » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:16 am

If you have to know what the "scoring environment" is before you make the decision, perhaps you should consider some other way to spend your time. All of the people who work for NEBA work very hard and spend long hours making it the best running organization on the East coast. Castigating them for something, that while informative and nice to know, doesn't have a hell of a lot of added value to the tournament, is pretty pointless.

The scoring pace is what it is; I'm not always happy about it, but a good bowler finds a way to play, the rest of us make do with the times when we play blind squirrel and find an acorn. :mrgreen:
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby RevInfinity » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:50 pm

ChinaDoll wrote:After the completion of the Sat night squad and the posting of the results for the participants whomever is working the computer for NEBA that night needs to post the information on this site that night.

An example would be:

48 bowlers
high score +126
low to make cut +74

This would allow people on Saturdayt night to see what the scoring environment is -- and for some to decide whether they want to bowl Sunday.

It would take all of 3-5 minutes to do this and would be quite valuable information some for NEBA bowlers. This needs to be done for every tournament, no excuses not to get it done.

In contrast posting the match play results and who won on-line immediately is far less important and could wait till Monday or Tuesday......... as it does not effect particpation at all.


Gee, maybe you should have put forth an application to be the tournament director then when Jack left? Then you could have definitely shared all of this infinite wisdom with all of us on an "official" basis. Personally, opinionated or not, I don't think it's very forthright to tell the organization how to run their tournaments. It's gone beyond "suggestions" or "constructive criticism." And all of this coming from some person whom none of us have the slightest damn clue who you are. What ever happened to just coming down at whichever squad is most convenient for the bowler, coming in and bowling, and just figuring out the shot? I didn't realize that was such a difficult thing. Since you have so much to say, and obviously no problem saying it, you should have no issues in telling us who you are. Personally, I'm curious. Hey! Maybe there could be Tournament Director auditions next weekend! It would be just like American Idol. Join the board of directors if you have so mucn to give to us!

P.S. There was no sarcasm injected into this message whatsoever!

P.P.S. And, no Russ, didn't make it this time! LOL. ;)
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby Chris Monroy » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:37 pm

I have read the commentary about the shot at Silver Lanes in August. I have also read China Doll's comments about posting the results of the Saturday Night squad so that a person can make decisions about whether or not to bowl on Sunday. Quite frankly, I have had it with this discussion and it is angering me. As President of NEBA, I will not support the official publication of the results by the Tournament Director. On a practical level, it is not fair to the people on Saturday who do come to bowl that they should have no idea what the scoring pace will be and the people on Sunday have some idea. Ideally, everyone should be bowling with the same information. The Saturday bowlers decide to come, put up their money to bowl, without knowing the scoring pace. Why should the Saturday bowlers basically be guinea pigs for the Sunday people? Makes no sense. Moreover, to China Doll, I don't appreciate your commentary about there being no reason or no excuse for this not to be done. Well, I think there is very good reason for the Tournament Director not to do it. I have just cited one of them. I will stand by the highly efficient and excellent job that Joey Nereu has done since taking over as Tournament Director. I think the Board made an excellent decision in selecting him from the several qualified candidates that we had and I think the disrespectful tone of your comments was out of line. Nobody is objecting to suggestions being made to improve NEBA. That is why we have a Board... to grow and improve NEBA and there are proposals being considered for such a purpose. What I am objecting to is the somewhat sarcastic tone of your comments. If you think, as Revinifinity stated, that you have so much to add to NEBA, then apply to get on the Board. I am happy to accept your request.

On another level, I personally think it is pathetic what China Doll wrote about having to know the scoring pace in order to decide whether or not to bowl. Instead of wondering whether or not the scoring pace fits your game, WHY NOT GET OFF YOUR REAR END AND WORK ON YOUR GAME SO THAT YOU CAN IMPROVE??? PERHAPS, IF YOU IMPROVE, YOU WILL NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT THE SCORING PACE IS BECAUSE YOU WILL HIT WHATEVER IS PUT OUT BY THE HOUSE!!! Oh yes, I am sorry, in this day where everyone demands instant gratification without any requirement of hard work and tenacity, I should have never suggested that...I lost my brain. :roll: I will remind all bowlers that NEBA is truly one of the PREMIER tournament clubs in the country, not just for the quality and duration of the events that the organization has and continues to run, but also for the caliber of bowler that has and continues to participate in NEBA. We have had PBA National Tour champions who graduated from NEBA so to speak. (Moser, Boghosian, Willis, Fagan, Allen, Wayne Webb). Need we also forget Mark Roth who won his 1st NEBA event he entered at Brockton in 2007? We have PBA regional champions who compete on a regular basis. (JVH, Michaud, Santos, Morotta, Wood, Miseno, Monroy) We have had megabuck/high roller champions who continue to bowl. (Tignor, Lichstein, Roberts). We have had ABC Eagle winners who still compete. (Hardy, Warshafsky). We have had two of the finest female bowlers in the country compete in NEBA. (Swanson, Kregling). I can't count how many NEBA players were champions of World Team Championship events. (Forry, Bill Webb, Rebstock...the list goes on...we all know who they are) I know I am missing people from each category on this list and there are some who belong in multiple categories. That list was not exhaustive. Look at the top 2 people who are leading points this year and they are nationally recognized for their accomplishments. (Aguiar and Dale). Generally speaking, you look at the people who year in and year out are in the top 48 of the points and you will come to the very quick conclusion that they are there for a reason...it is because they are quality bowlers who CAN and DO compete on all conditions REGARDLESS OF THE SCORING PACE. They are not afraid of any condition. My sense is that the vast majority of the top NEBA players are there because they have obvious talent but also because they work very hard at their games, practice, and learn the game from every aspect. They don't sit back and wait for a report to determine whether or not the scoring pace is to their liking. When they fall short, I suspect, like any true champion, they go back, figure out what went wrong, and come back stronger and smarter for the next event. AGAIN, IT IS HARD WORK!!! I have made several changes in my game after struggling at Newington which was one of the easiest shots this year. In fact, I averaged higher at Brockton on the tougher shot than I did at Newington. I was not happy, and I generally do not like shootouts. But, I went back, and made changes to try and be more competitive.

So, to China Doll, I will be blunt... you have the mentality of a loser if you really need scoring pace information to decide whether or not to bowl. I don't know who you are and for all I know, you could be one of the people I listed earlier. However, based on your comments, I suspect that you are not. If you need to know what the scoring pace is to determine whether not to bowl and whether or not you will have 10 boards to hit to get to the pocket, then as Kelly Vanhees observed, you should probably find something else to do. Perhaps you should come and bowl on a Saturday. From your own attitude, you probably need as many squads as you can to try and qualify. Moreover, I will sign my name to my comments AND STAND BY THEM. Lastly, if you want to go after me for sounding so sanctimonious/holier than thou, perhaps you should ask about the caliber bowler I was when I joined the PBA in 1994 and the learning curve and amount of work I have had to put in so that I could improve and be competitive at all levels of bowling.

Chris Monroy
NEBA President
Last edited by Chris Monroy on Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
In the game of life and bowling, strike early and often!
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby Transue » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:26 pm

I agree with the above posters (kellyv, rev, joey, monroy) either your gonna bowl or your not. I unfortunately havent bowled in the last few tournaments because of work & health issues. The last tournament i was able to make was in Brockton. I knew going in it was going to be tough whether or not the Saturday cut was posted. I planned to bowl no matter what. (and it kicked my butt twice on Sunday) But as you all know your never going to please everyone, and you're always gonna have the people that complain whether it's a shootout or a shot making tournament. I think we all know how well run NEBA is and has been for years and years.

However, the last few tournaments Saturday cut was posted on the website for viewing. Now it could have been an oversight, i don't know. I personally like to check out the website to see who the Winner and maybe the top 4 were, and the results have been there each tournament. I could care less about cut scores and such. Just my 2 cents worth.

To all the NEBA staff, directors, bowlers - keep up the great tournaments and great bowling!!!!
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby tripfour78 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:28 pm

Chris... very well put. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not much of a blog person but I would like to give my perspective to chinadoll. I have been bowling every NEBA tournament faithfully since Sept 06 (I may have missed 2 or 3). It is a great tournament and i love bowling in it. I thrive for the competition. And even when times are tough i manage to squeeze my pennies to bowl. And never once have i had to check the website to find out the cut or to try and get some sort of edge. I wait until i figure out which squad i want to bowl and i show up to bowl it. I look for any previous cut scores when i show up to the lanes. I pay my entry and then i figure out the shot accordingly.
I hold a 225 avg. in multiple leagues. And I may have 1 championship(thanks tommy). But qualifying is not the easiest thing to do.It is a great tournament with a great staff that does enough work as it is. They dont need to waste their time posting scores for you. It takes hard work and determination to get to the top. So i suggest if you need to know what the scores are then you should take your equipment to whatever house you are from and keep practicing.

P.S. not trying to burn bridges...just venting
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby MAGIC_PENCIL » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:26 am

Hey Guys,

I'm taking a longshot here,But I think I know who ChinaDoll is.There is this chic who post on MrBowling300 Message board that goes by the name Rickie(or Ricky) Smith.She quotes shes also a DJ and bowls in The New Haven County area and has mentioned Nutmeg Bowl,Rip Van Winkle,Circle lanes and Brookfield lanes in some of her post.
She claims she has pitched a 300 & and an 800 and carries a mid 2 teen adverage.Shes talks about Bobby Fleetwood alot in her different post too(about his Masters show)....maybe a groupie..??!!

Can't guarentee this is her or not,but you can check out her postings on MrBowling300.com message board and see for yourself~~~~BUT it really does sound like the same person.

I'm not going to really say much about what she said about badmouthing an update/cut score that didnt happen,I'm just gonna say,Shoe Up & Bowl or Shut Your Yap.I agree with you guys above 100% about her negative comments towards NEBA...

I used to travel to NEBA 3-5 hours away every month never knowing what to expect....I used to carry so many balls in my car and had so many tricks up my sleeve on how to play the lanes and THAT still didnt work..I bitched,complained,got mad at myself but its about throwing the ball and playing the lanes as they are and as it happens...Wish I knew what the lanes were like the night before so I knew what to expect,sorta-kinda,on Sunday so I wouldn't have to haul 40+ balls across 2-3 states away and ruin my car suspension.

And BTW,ChinaDoll...Did you even bowl Nutmeg?.....If you did,what was your qualifing totals?.......Any one see a long brown haired thin woman bowl NEBA this weekend?......If You did,That's ChinaDoll.You have thrown gas on the fire chinadoll,so expect to get burned now....;)

Dont mess with the guys above either.They know what their talking about and will outwit you 1000% in every commentairy you have.


Just My 2 Cents.
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby RevInfinity » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:16 am

I would be very curious to see China Doll's response to all of this...

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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby Chris Monroy » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:40 am

For what it is worth, I just checked China Doll's other posts. He made the post about the Silver shot and berated the demanding nature of that condition. He then made apparently 2 posts about the Brockton shot. He admitted that because of the varying abilities of the bowlers, there should be a default to a less demanding condition. He also stated that he prefers the +150 cuts. He agreed with a post that I made that perhaps the shot at Brockton may have been a little too hard for the May event. However, I also stated in that post that I would not oppose seeing that shot for the December event with the big money added and that I would prefer to see those tougher conditions on a more regular basis even though I recognize that from an organizational point of view, it may not be in the best interest of NEBA.

However, as I think the several posters have concluded, China Doll is a THB. China Doll can only bowl when the lanes are wide open. Well, China Doll, let me give you something to think about...watch what you ask for. You may find that you will not be able to compete on the shootouts. Just because you may average 230 in your house shot doesn't mean you will average 230 on every house shot. If you are in a shootout situation like Laurel, Newington, or East Providence this year, and you get on a bad pair, you may be out of luck. Moreover, you had better hope that you have exceptional carry on every pair because if you lose your carry, you may also be out of luck. Think about this, how would you feel if you average 230 at home, shot+175 for your qualifying (235 average), and go home empty-handed because the rest of the field averaged 240? Are you going to feel gratified? Might you say, "Geez, I averaged 5 pins higher than my league average and still could not compete." What about the 220 average player who shoots +150 in the same situation? Are they going to return? In that hypothetical, the bowler averaged 10 pins higher than in league and walked away without finals. Is that going to inspire them to return?

As such, I return to my original point. Bowling, despite common everyday wisdom of instant gratification and entitlement, requries dedication, hard work, and discipline in order to strive for the top. So, China Doll, if I may suggest, your time is better spent on the lanes working on your game and learning the sport rather than going to the supermarket for boxes of Kleenex when the scoring pace is not to your liking. You might well be surprised what you can accomplish with hard work.

Chris Monroy
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby RevInfinity » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:44 am

It appears that China Doll only posts when he/she sees the subject having anything to do with Saturday Night cut scores. Someone should make a random Saturday Night cut scores topic to see if it lures her/him in.
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby Becky » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:55 am

One more time...
Just because we use a computer on-site, doesn't mean we have internet access.

We seldom have internet in centers (We had it in 2 in the last 12 months). This means that whoever is working the computers on Saturday night doesn't always have the ability to post scores. We are trying to communicate better but the message board is usually utilized by bowlers on Saturday night and even Sunday's. One of the members drops me a text and posts Saturday's scores on the message board when he is able.

If the tournament director has internet access Saturday night, he posts the Saturday results on Twitter. That is the method we have chosen to give results - not this message board.

I tried the wireless anywhere service through Verizon mostly to use for NEBA. Unfortunately, it wasn't very good and I wasn't going to utilize it personally as must as I thought so didn't want to pay that much a month to post NEBA scores. I have a blackberry but I am not always on-site and it is cumbersome to do much on internet except browse.

I didn't read all the posts above mine so I am only commenting on one that started this discussion. Excuse me if I am repeating myself.

I seldom give an opinion but here are my quick thoughts/questions...

-- Those who bowl on Saturday do not know the scores or the shot so should those who bowl the next day be guaranteed that information?
-- Is providing that information part of NEBA's "job" and responsibility to its members?
-- From the earlier post, the communication of Saturday's scores allows the bowler to decide if they want to bowl. Therefore, it may lose us entries because someone who was planning to bowl may say the scores are too high, too low or too something. My question is will the communication increase entries? Is someone who wasn't planning on bowling ever going to check the scores at 10PM on Saturday and decide to get up and bowl the next day?

I am going to sound old and say...I miss the days of just "show up and bowl" instead of results on internet, texted info and shots with names. I am a stats person and wouldn't mind knowing the results on Saturday but having that knowledge would never have an impact on my decision as to whether to compete or not and I would still bring the balls I carry. Technology has definitely changed bowling in many ways.
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Re: nutmeg saturday cut?

Postby durand857 » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:37 pm

Hi all,

Now I usually just sit back and read all of the posts made on the message board and do not put my 2 cents in. This time I feel the need to post my opinion. I have been bowling NEBA for the past 15 yrs, and like most people I have bowled good on some shots and bad on others. No matter what I here about the shot I bowl and try to do my best. Sometimes I will check the message board on Saturday night just to get myself set for what is going to be the scoring pace on Sunday. If there is no post on the shot I still make the trip to bowl. If the shot is a strike fest or a spare show you still need to pick the right ball and make proper adjustments. For most of the people who know me I will bowl till I make the cut. Wether it takes me one squad or three. I was not going to bowl Nutmeg due to my game being not being as sharp as I wanted to be. I ended up practicing earlier in the week to get myself ready for Saturday night and was very fortunate to gets some lucky breaks and shoot a good number. Believe me I was the last person to expect myself as the tournamnet leader. I am there every month to bowl against some of the greatest bowlers on the East coast. There is no better way to improve your game then to bowl with bowlers of a higher caliber then you. This tournament gives you the chance to do that. What better way to learn then bowling a squad with Bill Webb, Chris Viale and Brian B and other greats. Too many to list. Joey, Becky and the rest of the NEBA staff do a great job every month running this tournament. I feel they should not be responsible for posting any Saturday night scores. We should be greatful that we still have a tournament to bowl every month.
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